Thanks Simon, great work as always. Unfortunately I can only confirm that. The best made, best value quality shoe on the market is Joseph Cheaney by a country mile. These shoes are classily elegant shoes that elevate the fashion style of the shoe wearer. Left foot was okay. Carmina Rain: UK 11 (best fitting Carmina last for me) Carmina Inca: UK 11 (too tight across instep) Carmina Forest: UK 11.5 (snug instep) Carmina Simpson: my feet are too wide for this last. Theyre good at marketing and following trends in particular, and have done very well in recent years. I have some upcoming which Ill be updating once arrived. And they are one of the very few brands offering something for the ladies. Alongside the quality of the leather, something thats lost at this lower price level is consistency. So in order to create a frame of reference, I phoned Jesper Ingevaldsson, who writes the website Shoegazing.com and now works in the industry, for Swedish shop/brand Skolyx. Take a ruler and measure between the base of the paper to the marked line. Some of the best dress shoes that you can get with your money today are the Carminas and the Meermins. Was no question about it in any of the cases). Morjas, and the other Swedish brands Myrqvist and Skolyx, all use leather board heel stiffeners. Carmina shoes are stylish, comfortable, unique, durable, and very cost-effective. He was told they had changed, as you see seem to have observed as well. I just purchased them and they are in transit from Sweden. I know last shape and design are the most obvious differences. Ive been a big fan of Crockett & Jones, Carmina and Edward Green. And in pictures I can see a difference in appearance, at least in terms of shape and design, but I am not sure if there is much of a difference elsewhere (I get that bespoke and such will fit nicer). If you wanted something sleeker, and dont mind it being slightly more delicate then JM Weston. Never felt loose. Crocketts and Carmina are in there largely for context, as mentioned. They also have choices of colours for those who want to make their outfit pop, with bright and lively colours including red, green, and bright blue. These should fit TTS for people with higher arches but this last is definitely not for me. I own a pair of JL Lopez loafers (995) and a pair of Cheaney Lewisham (380) and with the exception of the fact that JL claim a hand stitched apron, I cant see any qualitative difference whatsoever. "The quality control isnt quite as good as the English as well.. In general, I think this breakdown demonstrates that you still largely get what you pay for with shoes. Unfortunately almost all clothing has diminishing returns as you pay more, and thats certainly the case with shoes. Ive also, more recently, experienced the customer service at GC and G&G excellent in both cases, as was the consistently good service at the Little Cheaney shop in Leeds, when I lived in the North of England. You always get something more for your money (if you avoid big brands/designers) but the best value-for-money options will nearly always have been selected already by the cheaper brand. The stitching on the soles is also less dense, though the soles do have some nice detailing like shaped waists and channeled soles, as you mentioned. Cnes also has great hand-welted shoes too, about 350 I believe, which look a lot more expensive.. Of course manufacturing anything is significantly cheaper in Spain than the UK so the Spanish manufacturers are off to a good start in that regard with labour costs. So far I remained unconvinced but then again I dont know any better. I think I could tell the difference between a standard C&J and EG from a distance, though I wouldnt like to put that to the test! Very comfortable throughout the midfoot. Will they last much longer? Carmina shoes come with better finishing than the Meermin shoes. I wrote an article about it many years ago on the Swedish version of Shoegazing (before English was launched) which, to summarise, had the conclusion that its down to vanity. Thanks Robin. For something more formal I turn to Carmina which provides the best bang for the buck. It depends what else you have of course, but a dark brown or slimmer overall look is more likely to be more useful,.and certainly better for suits. The Yanko felt very similar to the TLB if a bit softer overall (this makes sense as the founder of TLB used to be with Yanko). It takes days to sift through the carmina thread to even know relatively what size to buy. Carminas guidance is down by half for shell or for unlined , in all lasts. Thats the opposite advice I received on rain from someone else. These would be an excellent fit if the toe box was a bit wider. Herringshoes.com). Looking forward to this. Also, I dont think youve ever written about painted patina on shoes . You must log in or register to reply here. Ive been reading a lot of menswear sites/blogs for years and this is one of the few that does not feel like sponsored content when you read it. Probably also worth mentioning the Carlos Santos brand from Portugal in this price bracket. Total:1,176 (members:154, guests:1,022), Preorders, Group Made-to-order, trunk shows, and o. Whites Barrie 8.5D: Felt too tight on the instep brand new. Ive found one Cheaney last with a wide toe box that works for me by sizing down so that the heel fits but very little success with other makers. Same thing is true at a luxury level. The dress shoes classics hold their own. The subreddit about quality footwear. The next level of price is below 250. Very snug toe box, foot extends past footbed on sides; too much vertical space even with tongue pad, resulting in lots of heel slip and overlapping facings. Very comfortable, heel is a smidge roomy, but overall an extremely comfortable last. 14.3 22.carmima uk6.5 carmina6.5 meermin/ 26.5 carmina . Boot socks. This helped me understand why sizing as 10D was actually very bad advice and never worked out well. It is relatively easy to find them discounted, Apologies if this question is in the wrong place. I still recall trying them for the first time after having worn Carmina for some years and noticed the difference instantly. Red Wing Iron Rangers (Last 8): 10D, forefoot stretched to be very comfortable. Carminas are really chic, classy, and fashionable. In terms of value I would say CJ handgrade. I'll only really be taking 2030 in 8.5 for 2017-2020 made pairs. meister Stylish Dinosaur Joined Feb 10, 2007 Messages 10,772 Reaction score 2,515 Dec 28, 2011 #9 I also have a pair of Loding chelsea boots (and other Loding things) I think in the end theyre too narrow for me. Leather board can, and top-end shoes use pure leather, which adapts even more. The insoles in the Carminas are really comfortable, balanced, and well-structured. I'd still stick with your usual 2030 size. Suede. Good arch support that's sculpted to he foot instead of the PNW Ladder rung shape. Personally, I like their lasts quite a bit. The latter is more obvious on the outside of a shoe, and you would certainly get less with Alden for example. Ive purchased two pairs over the past 10 months from brands in this article. Fully bespoke shoes including trial pair start from about 550 depending on the exchange rate, and they offer ready to wear / MTO lines of various grades between 65 and 450. Its an entirely stupid thing to say, not least because most of the leather used on the soles of English shoes are from European tanneries. Ive a pair of Barker Grant that I must have worn 50/60/70 times and its only last week I had a topy (SVIG rubber) put on, the cobbler reckoned the rubber on the heel hadnt worn enough to warrant replacement. The difference between the leather of Carmina shoes and the leather of Meermin shoes is that Carmina shoes are made with leather materials of a higher quality. No issues on 5+ hour rides. Although the vast majority of my formal clothes over the last 40+ years have been bespoke, I have never seen or felt the need to go bespoke on shoes. Nice to hear your journey Joshua. She tried Orbans but they were stiff as hell. Meermin Hiro: 10D (9UK), I can walk miles in these in thin/medium socks but would strongly prefer more toe room. New product releases, daily discussion and community building with a common interest in quality footwear. My understanding is that AE is below the likes of Crocketts in terms of make, but thats based on the input of people like Jesper who know more about them than I do. Id love to step up to Crocketts as Ive heard great things. Fit seemed good at first but toe box is just too narrow for extended wear. Indeed, stylistically they are even quite close. It would be nice to see more posts on the different plateaus (?) Unlike tailoring where fashions and preferences can change over time, given your taste and understanding of fit also develops, shoes are mostly immune to change. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Perhaps my favorite, but I'd need more time with the boots to decide. Obviously also a difference style of shoe, but those companies spend so much on marketing and sales compared to these makers, that they are inevitably worse value purely from a quality point of view. It was snug, but not tight, and I could tell that they would fit perfectly once the sole settles. It was a hard break in, mostly just the arch. Meermins are stylish shoes, but they are also quite practical as well. NEW Allen Edmonds Leeds 9591 8.5 E Shell Cordovan Color 8 PTB Blucher USA. Carmina Simpson 8.5UK: Tried for oxfords but had to return, instep was too low for closed lacing. E.g. But you might want to chat with Carmina first to double-check. What I had in mind though was a roundup like this one with Jespers input. Its a comparable quality level, at a slightly lower price, and uses leather-board heel stiffeners. Rock Your Socks- show your sock, shoe & pant combos, *DROP 3/1* NWT $240 Ralph Lauren Purple Label Italian Made Navy Linen & Mulberry Silk Twill Neck Tie, * DROP 3/1 * NWT $225 Ralph Lauren Purple Label Italian Made Square Knit Solid Black Silk Neck Tie, R.M.Williams Comfort Craftsman Tobacco Suede UK 8.5 H. OGIO Golf Travel Bags The Royal Experience! Viberg 2040 8.5: No variable widths for this last. p.s. Noel: That was the point I was trying to make, when I wrote: whats my experience, and I know for many others as well who have good bespoke shoes, is that the experience of wearing them, with the snug comfortable fit, excellent arch support etc, widely triumph wearing RTW/MTO Goodyear welted shoes. both pairs have a dainite (or dainite-type, in Meermin's case) sole the Meermins have blind eyelets, whereas the Carminas have a brass eyelet that look to match the speedhook finish the heel on the Carminas is quite a bit longer than Meermin's They initially repaired free of charge and when the heels came loose again they replaced for a shoe from their 1880 range. Check the Noble Shoe eshop for several decent ones. Its just not possible.. So yes, you get more durable suede shoes higher up in the price ranges. American brands seem to be better at this (Alden, AE). I usually just buy shoes in the 500 range when they go on sale for 200-300, but in the 300 range I really like the Austrian manufacturer Handmacher; they make shoes on traditionally boxy Viennese lasts, and they use tiny wooden nails to connect the soles to the uppers. (Portuguese shoemaker) For example, I dont really care about super fine handwork on a shirt. Nice article , but why the article call these cheap shoes? A reader even referenced it in a comment above on this post. Plain black Oxfords from Churchs who are near the rail station. Alden TruBalance 9D: Its just so good. Its a company started in 2014 that I discovered today. My experience with them has been very similar to yours, Felix. Red Wing 23 9D: decent fit. Although, suede uppers would take a long time to wear out. By far the highest quality of any of the brands on this list (and in my opinion, the most elegant lasts). Buying a pair of Meermins is not a decision that you are going to regret, trust me. Im a long term Crockett and Jones customer I buy main line and handgrade (I prefer the handgrade for the softness of the leather and the whole leather inner, which feels lovely). Meermin shoes come with rubber shoe soles that are hardworn and really sturdy. Interested to hear your thoughts if one abstracts from the usual price mark-up due to branding etc. RUI 9: Great fit as I recall from trying in a store over a year ago. Perhaps more time and break in on the stiff leather sole would make it work. The arch is prominent, not as much as the White's Archease. Worn sockless. First impressions tell us most of what we need to know about certain products. Youre right, the second pair are a little more casual, but I think either would be OK and personally I prefer the shorter apron of the former. I acknowledge I am emotionally attached to AE, it was the first quality brand I could access. I have a pair of black calf oxfords from Morjas and the leather feels rather cheap: it looks like patent leather, only matte not shiny. You are using an out of date browser. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. #EasyLifeESMenBoots #DopeBoots #Meermin #TobaccoVintageBoots #EasyLifeES #CasualMenBoots #Carmina #ShellCordovanBurdeosHorweenBoots---ALL UB playlist---: ht. Off sale they come in at about 380 per pair (sale price 225) and they have a great re-furb service where for 80, theyll send them back to you as good as new. Forest is a rounded toe, regular instep and more room across the forepart. Among the many pairs I tried a pair of color 8 CXL beefrolls were the best fitting. Ive thoroughly enjoyed this article and PS in general. Cheers, H. While I havent worn Prada or Ferragamo, I can be quite certain that they will be worse value for money than those mentioned here. I started out with Allen Edmunds because they offer reasonably priced shoes (for Americans) with decent quality. I returned this pair. Theyre perhaps most similar to Skolyx, in being a very simple make but with good materials. In durability? Again, a big thank you to Simon and Jesper for the article. I even got a pair of Lobb Chapels for 245 in 2009. Sizing as 10D often feels the most natural for overall volume but is usually tight in the mid-foot (not always noticeable until I've walked in the shoes for a while), sometimes toes/ball, and occasionally a bit short in the arch/flex point. Some can only be purchased at high upcharge compared to what they cost in Europe, while some can be bought from European retailers with free shipping, VAT deducted and no customs charge (as long as below $800) so they come out 15-20% cheaper than they cost in Europe. No more Stows for me. An apron toe penny loafer from Orbans last summer that were on clearance for 60 euros. Jesper concludes by saying: You cant expect to get a really premium shoe for an entry-level price, and you shouldnt get too excited at places that promise that. Dont buy both together though do buy one then the other, just to make sure you do like that style and fit etc. I have had to send back two pairs on separate occasions that both had massive construction errors. Switching to thin socks gives a very relaxed fit. They didn't gave Detroit EEE in stock so I couldn't try it. Surprisingly minimal break-in but it's been a long time. Ive only been reading PS for a few months, and I immediately got hooked to the point that I spend my free time reading past articles in order to catch up. Im really looking forward to the promised article on TLB Artista.